tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5227984311426393249.post2949236068985427085..comments2023-10-26T06:29:06.795-05:00Comments on My Christian Diary: Temperature's Rise Over Ray ComfortDonna Bragghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09730578375942057416noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5227984311426393249.post-53304683950743657102009-01-07T22:49:00.000-06:002009-01-07T22:49:00.000-06:00I think Ray Comfort is a normal Christian, and a g...I think Ray Comfort is a normal Christian, and a good one at that. The early Christians were no different either.<BR/><BR/>Remember Stephen? The first marytr? He spoke against his fellow Jews that they were like blind men leading the blind. Religion alone is fatal and definitely not God-honoring. The Jews have forgotten that behind their religious festivities should be a heart that is submissive and obedient to God. <BR/><BR/>Stephen wasn't a criminal but he was killed because he exposed the truth behind the hypocrisy of the religious Jews.<BR/><BR/> By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? <B>Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.</B><BR/><BR/> "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'<BR/>-Matthew 7<BR/><BR/>The only way to discredit a Christian is when he lives & dies and leaves a legacy of immorality and injustice. I don't see that with the early martyrs nor with Ray.okaonishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14440419443743559074noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5227984311426393249.post-63845273777903287012009-01-07T15:27:00.000-06:002009-01-07T15:27:00.000-06:00Hi again Donna, Thank you for the response.I will ...Hi again Donna, <BR/><BR/>Thank you for the response.<BR/><BR/>I will give you that it does take a certain amount of courage to do what they do, at one point in my life I was an apologist like Ray and Kirk try to be, I was a lot more successful (fame aside, my success rate was likely better, i certainly didn't get the opportunity to deal with the masses that they do) at it than they. <BR/><BR/>My point is that it isn't that i dont comprehend and therefore UNDERSTAND the points they are trying to make, because I very well do get the points, I just think that they are almost always VERY bad points....the Banana argument and the infamous Can of Coke argument are utterly ludicrous...and so are his arguments regarding the painting having a painter....When someone points out the folly of those analogies he uses Ray just ignores it...thats bad apologetics and it shows me that Ray may not be very wise as to what he is talking about.<BR/><BR/>I also comprehend the offensiveness of the Gospel, as a former evangelical Christian providing the gospel to those without it was one of the most important aspects of my daily life...It is offensive because of the things it requires and the punishments it points out for those that do not follow it. Only after I was able to look at Christianity in an objective sense (IE not being a part of it) was I able to realize just how offensive it was---the notion that God our loving creator was sending 90% of his population to eternal torture and hellfire...<BR/><BR/>So let me just say that I do understand , and there was a point in my life where my faith was much greater than a mustard seed...examining it again i realize how much folly it truly was.<BR/><BR/>I don't doubt that Kirk and Ray love people, I do too, and i did as a Christian...but I didn't always understand the best way to show that love...<BR/><BR/>as far as bad decisions go, God should do a better job convincing me of his existence---if he loves me then that burden belongs to God-not me and not you.<BR/><BR/>I have handled a lot of ray's arguments on a few posts on my blog @ <BR/><BR/>http://ragingrev.com/2008/10/06/ray-comfort-vs-the-evile-atheists/<BR/><BR/>btw...forgive me, but i know that the language in the above link is a little condescending...im trying to avoid being like that now, but I was bitter when i wrote that...so please don't let it offend you.<BR/><BR/>and No it isnt wrong for you to desire my salvation, i understand and can empathize with that line of thought because I have been there with many unbelievers before...I think it is noble but misguided...none the less, i do appreciate the thought.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5227984311426393249.post-32681179710731791142009-01-06T20:52:00.000-06:002009-01-06T20:52:00.000-06:00I think that indeed it is important and amazing th...I think that indeed it is important and amazing that Jesus recognized others, recognized their sins, and loved them despite their sins. Of course Christians should believe and follow biblical truth, stand up for biblical truth, and express that biblical truth to others. But I think it's important to be thoughtful of the WAY you express biblical truth. <BR/><BR/>If a Christian friend of mine were to sin, I'd more than likely have a conversation with her about it and eventually she will appreciate the challenge I'm offering her. These conversations are appropriate because they are done within the context of a relationship. On the other hand, calling out a complete stranger on his or her sinful behavior in the middle of a public street in front of a video camera will NOT be perceived as loving by any means. It will be perceived judgmental.<BR/> <BR/>What Christians need to understand is that our excited proclamation of the truth may not seen as loving by those who don't believe what we believe. And aren't we called to first and foremost LOVE our neighbor?<BR/><BR/>I was a communication major in college and the first lesson I learned about effective communication is: "know your audience." I really think Messiah College taught me well on this one. As Christians, when we know our audience we are forming relationships with them--the first step towards love. We learn about their lives, mourn as they mourn, rejoice when they rejoice, and understand their struggles. We are able to more effectively discuss the gospel with them because since we know them and have invested time in them, we know how to better communicate with them.<BR/><BR/>Perhaps Jesus did come across as rude to the woman at the well. But he's Jesus! He's allowed to judge. We're human and we are not called to do that. We are called to build relationships, love others, tell the world about our awesome Jesus, rinse and repeat. We do not need to abrasively share our faith with strangers in order to do that. <BR/><BR/>I guess all I'm saying is to put yourself in the non-Christian's shoes. What would you think if you were a non-Christian approached by Kirk Cameron? How would you feel if he grilled you about your faith and called you a lying thief? How open would be to give your heart to his god? Kirk and Ray may have godly intentions, but I really think God shakes his head in sadness when He sees His children attack His other children who have not yet given themselves to Him. I really do.<BR/><BR/>Love God...love others...nothing else matters,<BR/><BR/>AkirahAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5227984311426393249.post-68755959795765667542009-01-06T14:15:00.000-06:002009-01-06T14:15:00.000-06:00Matt,I certainly do appreciate your kindess. Thank...Matt,<BR/>I certainly do appreciate your kindess. Thank you! <BR/><BR/>It takes alot of courage to do what Ray and Kirk do. To face people on the street that MAY bash their face in, but they still do it. <BR/>I understand what he is saying about the building needing to have a builder, and a coke can needing to have someone design it, and Ray is just saying that if people would just REALLY take a long look at the world, people would see that it was perfectly designed. It being so perfect for man. It has everything we need on it. I have watched many of his dvds and I understand what he is saying. <BR/>I am so sorry that you do not understand and find him offensive, I only see his love for others. <BR/>Now, that being said, I do believe once a person has said they are not interested, a witness for JESUS should politely back away, and kindly say "I will pray for you", and go to the next person. I have seen him do that a few times, but I understand too, that he is desperate to reach people to warn them of a horrible place that he does not want anyone to go to. <BR/><BR/>When I posted about the woman at the well. Did you not see how JESUS talked to the woman? It could be said that JESUS was talking rude to her, but HE knew what was needed to reach her heart. That is what Ray does.<BR/><BR/>The Bible says that not everyone will understand, because of lack of faith. Maybe it is because you do not have faith. You know, all you need is faith as big as a mustard seed. Maybe try to understand his point of view. <BR/><BR/>My friend just flew to go to a conference with Ray and kirk and she said that he really does love people. Please Matt, try to understand. I know you say you do not believe in GOD, but don't take it from me or anyone else, ask GOD HIMSELF. HE will definitly answer you. It may not be today or tomorrow or maybe HE will. I do not know, but please investigate, before you make a really bad decision. <BR/>You are very kind and I am really happy you came back. I pray for you Matt. I want you as my brother forever. Is that wrong? :)<BR/><BR/>In service for CHRIST,<BR/>DonnaDonna Bragghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09730578375942057416noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5227984311426393249.post-65409142545892871062009-01-06T11:41:00.000-06:002009-01-06T11:41:00.000-06:00Donna,I am sorry If i was offensive, I tried to ch...Donna,<BR/><BR/>I am sorry If i was offensive, I tried to choose words and language that were to the point but not insulting...perhaps I made a mistake in my last comment on the other thread...if so I apologize.<BR/><BR/>I have read Ray Comforts debate points, tracts, and watched a few of his videos...If Jesus were to talk up to me like Ray does I would have had ample opportunity to dismantle him, and this whole christian religion wouldn't even exist. Ray makes BAD points, bananas and coke cans...and thinks that if you don't think they are GOOD points then you must be a blind and ignorant Atheist... Ray talks fast and makes no real point in anything I have ever heard him say, just go to his blog, see how mean he is to the Atheists there...(some may deserve it mind you) but he certainly sets a bad example and doesn't listen to their points... his blog is at http://raycomfortfood.blogspot.com<BR/><BR/>I understand your desire to come closer to God and to evangelize people...truly I do, because I have been there, but if you have to learn it from these guys then your gonna find yourself in a pretty severe hole one day with the wrong unbeliever and he might just crush your world of faith and create in you all sorts of doubts that you may not be ready to face...which in my view is a good thing, but im thinking from the Christian mindset here....either way good luck finding something better to learn from...and thanks for advertising on my blog!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5227984311426393249.post-78067076015579171292009-01-06T11:02:00.000-06:002009-01-06T11:02:00.000-06:00Matthew Keegan,Thank you for the encouragement. I ...Matthew Keegan,<BR/>Thank you for the encouragement. I just want us all to be kind to each other, even we do not agree on every point every time. <BR/><BR/>I am glad you added 1 Corinthians 13:1 too, I wished I would have added that one too. It is sooo good. <BR/><BR/>Your sister in CHRIST,<BR/>DonnaDonna Bragghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09730578375942057416noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5227984311426393249.post-60325103232934043452009-01-06T10:45:00.000-06:002009-01-06T10:45:00.000-06:00Donna, you make some very good points, particularl...Donna, you make some very good points, particularly in the way that people respond.<BR/><BR/>So-called Christians need to read 1 Corinthians 13 and take it to heart. Love isn't boastful nor is it rude. Nor does it provoke, is unkind, jealous nor does it fail.<BR/><BR/>I find that the comments some people make about other believers violates the way Christians are supposed to conduct themselves with each other -- you have every right to delete the obnoxious posts and leave it at that.Matthew C. Keeganhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17650742637769321600noreply@blogger.com